Rola Dagher, President, Cisco Systems Canada

Goldy Hyder:

Welcome to Speaking of Business Conversations with Canadian innovators, entrepreneurs, and business leaders. I’m Goldy Hyder, president and CEO of the Business Council of Canada. Today I’m speaking with Rola Dagher, president of Cisco Systems Canada. Cisco’s Canadian operations are key revenue generators globally and produce some of the company’s greatest innovations. As you’ll hear, Rola herself overcame a difficult upbringing in Wartorn Lebanon, something she credits with much of her tenacity and drive. She shares the company’s initiatives around mental health and Canada’s North, as well as some valuable tips for aspiring leaders. Enjoy Rola. Thanks for doing this. It’s really great to see you,

Rola Dagher:

And great to see you too. I’m really excited. Goldy,

Goldy Hyder:

Let’s start at the beginning. You’re from Lebanon. Yep. You came to Canada later in life. How did you get here?

Rola Dagher:

I love how I got here and I’m so, so grateful. Let me start by saying I’m a very, very proud Lebanese, but an extremely grateful Canadian because the opportunity that Canada gave me and my family is something that I will forever be blessed for. So born and raised in Lebanon in a very, very small village. My father is my heartbeat, and my parents had six girls. And as you know, traditionally for a Lebanese man to have six girls was kind of a shame in the whole town. Poor guy, what is he going to do with six girls? But my father managed to raise outstanding six girls with my mother in a very, very tough time. I never thought that I would be destined to be the first girl in the family to be given away at 15 years old in marriage, but it was my luck. And back then it was typical. So yes, given away at 15 years in marriage, and I was married for 20 years, I have two amazing kids that are the gift of life for me. Out of that marriage, nothing great came out except Michael and Stephanie. They’re the love of my life. They’re my heartbeat, and they make me want to be a better mother every day. She’s 30 years old. She works for RBC and Michael is 25 years old, and he is a very creative barber.

Goldy Hyder:

Wow. Rola, that’s an incredible story. How did you go from an arranged marriage in Lebanon and then end up immigrating to Canada?

Rola Dagher:

I came to Canada after my parents decided to marry me off and leave me behind. I was married at the time and they couldn’t sponsor me to be with them here. And I remember the worst day of my life when I saw my parents get in a taxi to go to the airport, and I was sitting on the sidewalk and I basically heard nothing but the noise of bomb dropping in the next town and people screaming and hiding in bomb shelters. And literally that was the day I thought I felt deserted. So for me, none of that impacted me in a way of feeling sorry for myself. And in fact, when I was left behind with my ex at the time, I had a beautiful daughter. Stephanie was born there, and she was born in a bomb shelter. And two years ago, by the way, I took her back to see where she was born, and she sat on the steps of those bomb shelters and she cried like a little kid, the same mom, I can’t believe where you were and where you are today.

So I ended up leaving Beirut with Stephanie and my ex at the time, at nine months old, Stephanie, in a backseat of a car and a trunk of a car because women and kids were not allowed to cross the border. So we got to the airport, and at the time, kids weren’t allowed to travel. And I remember the custom guy said to me, you can get on the plane. Your daughter can’t. I only had $500 on me. I gave it to him. And he said, okay, now you could go. So we landed in Cyprus and that’s where every single Lebanese person was trying to escape and people were living on the streets. And I was one of those people to live on the streets for three, four weeks until I literally slept at the steps of the embassy, Canadian embassy every day until I got my paperwork and my visa to come to Canada, because it took us two years to get our paperwork done. And I landed here March, 1989 with my daughter and my ex at the time, and the minute I saw my parents, that was the minute of hope for me. And 29 years later, here I am, I started working at Bell as a telemarketer, selling long distance. I was the annoying one calling you over dinner to sell you long distance minutes. That was you?

Goldy Hyder:

Yes.

Rola Dagher:

To switch from sprint in at and t and moved my way up. And I just learned technology at an early age where I never thought technology was something that I would be so passionate about.

Goldy Hyder:

You called your dad a heartbeat, and I know you referred to him as your hero before he had six daughters. There’s a story of what his mother said to him about trying for number seven. Can you tell our listeners that

Rola Dagher:

It’s funny and I’m glad you’re a great listener. You remember? I remember my dad telling us the story, and I actually do recall my grandmother coming in and said to my dad, Michael, I read the coffee cup. In the coffee cup. It says after six girls, number seven should be a boy. He looked at her and he said, mom, I love you, but get the hell out of my house. And that’s basically what my decided, he’s not trying for seven or eight more. I have to tell you funny story for you. When I was being interviewed for this role at Cisco, actually in the room next door, they snuck me in here because it was very confidential. And I met with the chief sales operating officer, and everybody said to me, that’s your toughest, toughest interview with him because he’s a tough guy. And when I walked in and it was over video, the last question he asked me was, outside of your kids and your immediate family, what is the one thing you’re most proud of? And I thought it was an interesting question, and my answer to him was, I’m most proud to be the daughter for my father, that he always wished to have a son back then because of the culture, but I’m most proud of the daughter I became. For him to carry the name, he wanted to be carried. That’s nice. And he got up and he said, wow, slam dunk. You got the job. So I think this is

Goldy Hyder:

How I, well, you say he treated you all as six girls, but I also know you know how to change flat tires. Tell us that story too. I

Rola Dagher:

Do. I do. So again, six girls. My father had a body shop in a small town and he fixed cars and of course, six girls at home. So one time, and it was Easter Sunday, we’re all dressed up in white dresses to go to church and dad had a flat tire and then he went into the house to change, and then he came back and the tire was changed. And I took the liberty of basically making sure that I make him proud. But then I got in trouble because I dirtied my dress and we were going to church. So my mom wasn’t very happy. But yes, I did change the tire at six years old.

Goldy Hyder:

I’m just curious. Six daughters. Do you think it would’ve been different for him and for you if there was a couple of brothers thrown in there with the traditional gender role sort of kicked in terms of how the kids were raised or not?

Rola Dagher:

It’s funny you asked me this question because I don’t think anybody’s ever asked, but my father would tell you, even if you talk to him now, he would’ve never, ever, ever exchanged any of the girls. For a boy it would’ve been nice to have. Sure. But in terms of changing the way he raised us, no, he’s so tough. Even on me now at 48 years old, Goldy, when he speaks, I do not talk back when he’s talking. I have full respect and I always tell my kids and my nieces and nephews now, I’m like, look at me. I’m 48 years old and I still look at Jido du as grandpa as I fear of respect for my father because I idolized the fact that he’s so strong minded. Came to the country with five girls at the time, then me and helped me and my mother. He didn’t speak a word of English. And where he is today,

Goldy Hyder:

Probably not much money in his wallet,

Rola Dagher:

Not much money in the wallet. And my father, he basically said, you fall, you get up, you fall, you get up. Failing is learning, but giving up is never, ever, ever was an option in his eyes. And all of us at home, you’ll see that we’re tough, tough, tough and tougher because of him. And I look at him today and I tell you that that’s when I say he’s my heartbeat. He’s my life mentor. And I am so grateful for everything that he and mom did because without my father, I wouldn’t be half of the woman that I am today.

Goldy Hyder:

Well, we’re lucky that they had you. Thank you. And we’re lucky that they chose Canada.

Rola Dagher:

Thank you so much. Thank you, Goldy.

Goldy Hyder:

One of the things about leadership is there’s different paths to that place. Yours is built on adversity. Yours is built on managing the things that you’ve just talked about. What role has adversity played in making you the leader that you are today?

Rola Dagher:

I think actually it played a huge role for me, and it is what makes me the leader I am today. Because my past never defined me to be who I am. It actually helped me to be the leader I am today because I learned very quickly. You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only option that you have. And for me, I lead based on servant leadership. I lead based on thinking first. How do I want the leader to think of me and what do I want from my leader? So it’s very easy when I sit with someone and I base everything I do on what do they want out of a leader, to be empathetic, to listen, to help them, empower them, to inspire them, and you let them go out there in impact. So for me, it was really important that I have that quality of ensuring that continuous development, continuous improvement, that diversity of thoughts around being a leader and being so adaptable to everything we do on a daily basis.

Goldy Hyder:

Education is another thing that you’ve talked about. I read a piece where you said degrees are important, but they’re only one part of a longer equation. Attitude, willingness, hunger, drive, determination, and the ability to adapt change, you said, or the qualities that truly give people a competitive edge.

Rola Dagher:

Yeah. I probably didn’t share this with you, but I do not have a university

Goldy Hyder:

Degree. You had actually you told me that and I remember it well, because again, what a story.

Rola Dagher:

Exactly. So I never had the opportunity to go to university given away at 15 years old in marriage and then the war. And I was lucky if I actually found a safe place for me to protect my family. So I never had that opportunity. So I believe life is your biggest lesson and EQ versus iq, and you’ve heard me talk about that in the past where today EQ will have IQ for breakfast. In fact, apple, Google, Facebook, salesforce.com, some of those organizations have banded certifications as a qualifications to hire people. And why? Because it’s very important to, and listen, I have two kids. I pushed really hard to get my kids to get university degrees because that was my dream, to ensure that everything I couldn’t get my kids will have the best life. I’m not saying that let’s not send kids to university, but what I’m saying here that it’s 50 50 today where we need to ensure that we’re actually prepping the next generation to have the balance of having that emotional quotient at the same time as the iq because it is so important.

If I didn’t have my EQ as strong as it is, I wouldn’t be the leader I am today. And to me, learning is the fuel of everything that I’ve been so successful at. So learning is the passion of life for me, and it is so important that you have that EQ today because that’s what makes leaders. I mean, we are in the world of digital transformation, ai, I mean you could get any information you want in seconds, but the EQ part is where the 80% lean on their EQ to actually lead and become that different unique leader from a servant leadership to an adaptable leader to all of the above. So I am really big on EQ and have the balance of IQ and eq.

Goldy Hyder:

So what’s your advice then for young people today who are thinking about becoming leaders?

Rola Dagher:

Learn it, earn it, and return it. And they have to learn everything and be open to constructive feedback because the minute you stop learning and you think you know it all, that’s when you stop actually learning what’s happening in the world and developing. So they have to learn and continue to learn and get out of the comfort zone and they have to earn it. Everything in life is earned, not given. And once they learn it, they develop, they get out of the comfort zone, they earn it, they have to return it. For me, I look at myself, once I got to where I am today, I always remembered I need to send the elevator back down. And to me, it is so important that we return it to help others to get to where we are today.

Goldy Hyder:

Let’s talk about another big passion of yours, diversity. You’ve given a number of speeches on the subject. Where is that coming from? Is that just because of your own background or is it something that you see in Canada that diversity is an opportunity and an advantage?

Rola Dagher:

It’s all of the above. For me, diversity is so important because of course it starts with my background and coming to the country not speaking a word of English. And people thought, oh yeah, they come from a background. The Middle East, of course all the trouble. So we’re all painted in the same brush. I actually worked in an organization where at Christmas they did a Chris Gringle and Secret Santa, and all the women got dolls and Barbies and they handed me a machine gun because of where I come from. And actually one of my leaders in the past said to me, you’re only successful because of your good looks. So those type of things for me in life taught me to be a stronger leader when it comes to diversity and ensuring that we have, it doesn’t matter, age, color, race, culture. It doesn’t matter where you come from.

People are people, okay, don’t judge me from where I come from or my race or religion. Judge me of what value I bring in what my role in the world and what impact that I make. And for me, especially in this organization, I walk in and if we don’t have diversity of thoughts, diversity of adaptability and diversity of leaders, I need to make a change. And I’ll tell you, I don’t want to hire people from the same culture or race or background as I am. I want to hire different people. I want to hire people that are going to challenge me, that they come from a world where it’s done differently. And I don’t think in Canada we’re doing enough of that, especially the diversity of thoughts, of ensuring we’re listening more and we’re hearing what’s out there and we’re open to new ideas. And I have to tell you, and I shocked a lot of the Canadians when I went to India and I hired my vice president of engineering and I went to England and I brought my strategy and planning person, and we went to San Jose and got our finance person.

Because in Canada, as you know, Goldy, were struggle with top talent because a lot of the top talent, they hit a ceiling and they want to leave and they want to go to Silicon Valley and that what do we

Goldy Hyder:

Do about

Rola Dagher:

That? You know what? It is something that we as leaders in Canada have to do a much better job. Of course, it’s a long conversation and don’t get me started when it comes in terms of how much we pay on taxes and all of the above, but those are things that we need to attract other talent. I mean, I get a lot of,

Goldy Hyder:

Is it hard to convince those people to come to Canada? They must have options.

Rola Dagher:

No, no, actually people want to come to Canada, but once they come to Canada, the problem is we can’t retain them and we can’t keep them. And that’s the challenge that we have. I mean, if I show you my LinkedIn messages where I’m getting messages from all over the world, especially people in the Middle East that they know I’m Lebanese and they want to come work here from Dubai, Saudi from India, that people want to come to Canada, they love Canada. But once we get them here, it’s how do we retain them? How do we keep them? And we make it difficult from a government perspective. And that’s when I’d love to talk to you about the whole knowledge-based economy that we need as organizations. I think we have a big gap and we’re discombobulated when it comes to having academia, businesses and government working together to ensure we actually attract more talent. We actually make it easier for the new generation because right now we’re all pulling in different

Goldy Hyder:

Directions. Do you think that’s in part because we’re Canadian, we’re comfortable, we’ve been known to be somewhat complacent at times. Are we getting too comfortable?

Rola Dagher:

Yeah, we are too comfortable and we are too nice when we’re in the US and you ask a question, what do you think if Canada, and they’re like, oh, Canadians are so nice. I love hearing that Canadians are so nice, but I want to hear that Canadians are disrupting. I want to hear that Canadians are breaking through some of those major obstacles. I don’t want to hear and I don’t want my daughter to tell me, mom, I’m ready to go to the US to find a new career. Or I want to go to Europe, or I want to go to Australia. I want them to stay here. And I think we’re capable of making Canada the next great disruptor country that attracts and retain talents to stay in the country.

Goldy Hyder:

So disruption in your business. Yeah. You’re both enabler and an initiator. How are you managing that in the confines of running Cisco Canada? But more broadly, how are you advising your customers in dealing with disruption?

Rola Dagher:

Very simple. I mean, a lot of people are calling it the fourth industrial revolution, the era of intelligence, whatever you want to call it. I call it the era of digital transformation on a journey. We’re on a journey right now. You either disrupt or you get disrupted. It’s really, really simple. If it worked for us in the last 25 years, it doesn’t mean that it’s going to work for us in the next 25 years. And Goldy, you remember when we went to New York, our last business council of Canada, I have never heard in a business council of Canada, which is almost two years for me, the importance of technology, how it is the foundation of everything that we’re doing.

Goldy Hyder:

We’re all on our journey to becoming technology companies, aren’t we?

Rola Dagher:

Exactly. I mean, Starbucks call themselves a technology company. So the way we actually present it to customers today, you could decide to stay where you are today, but if you don’t change in the next five years because digital transformation and the train of fourth industrial revolution is here, you will be obsolete, right? I mean, think about it called a 45% of jobs that exist today will no longer exist in the next five to 10 years. Yes, new jobs will be created, but you don’t get fit by looking at someone going to the gym. You actually

Goldy Hyder:

Have to get, I tried that. It doesn’t work. Exactly.

Rola Dagher:

I tried it too, and I keep trying at 48, it’s not working. But my point is, you have to be there. You have to start making that transformation. I mean it’s proven. Most of the companies, all the top SMP, the Fortune 500 companies that we have right now, if you look at the average in the old days, some of those SMP companies used to last about 75 years. Now moving forward, they’re saying maximum of five to 10 years maximum if you don’t transform your business.

Goldy Hyder:

A little while ago you gave me the pleasure of meeting your boss, your global CEO, he’s

Rola Dagher:

Outstanding.

Goldy Hyder:

And I asked him, why are you investing in Canada, Cisco? What do you like about Canada? I mean your record here of achievement, third largest r and d center, a top five market for Cisco in the world to credit to you and obviously your team and your predecessors. So I was struck by the answer. What Chuck said was talent. He said, you either have it and here’s the important part, you can get it. So that really speaks to immigration. It speaks to some of the issues that are in the news today, refugees, asylum seekers. There’s a sense in Canada that we feel immune from some of the global pressures that are going on around these issues. Whether you looked at Brexit or what happened in the United States or Germany or Italy, are you at all concerned that we’re not going to be able to get the talent that we want if we go down that path and sort of restrict immigration levels or not be able to keep up with the demand?

Rola Dagher:

So I love being Canadians. I love living in Canada. In fact, I don’t think I’ll choose another country to live other than Canada because Canada is home for me. As much as I’m a proud Lebanese, I went back three times and there’s no way I could live there. So we have great things in Canada and we continue to do better and better. How do you take it from good to great to excellent and continue to develop? I mean, I don’t know if, did you go to Elevate? Did you hear when Eric Schmidt talked about why they want to invest in Canada and why the sidewalk lab in Canada is being developed? And he said, because they look at Canada as the next generation of innovation technology company where we actually last two quarters, we were top from an innovation and employing and creating new jobs in technology in Canada, which is

Goldy Hyder:

Great. And this is where we are in downtown Toronto. Exactly. It’s becoming a major hub. But

Rola Dagher:

How do you retain that? For me, I’d like to measure the success of those two quarters where we actually beat Silicon Valley or Chicago and Boston, but how do we measure the success of that and how do we continue as businesses, as government, as academia to invest in our people to stay in the country? Because what I’m seeing is you develop them and then they decide to

Goldy Hyder:

Leave. It sounds like we want to become the next startup nation like Israel it

Rola Dagher:

Exactly, exactly like Israel did.

Goldy Hyder:

One of the things they say about Canadians is the complacency takes us to a place where the great ambition is to build the $10 million company, sell it and get a cottage in the Muskoka. Are you at all concerned about our ability to scale and scale up and be a place that’s not just an incubator country, but a country that can grow companies to become global leaders?

Rola Dagher:

Yes, and I’ve heard it in the US as well that there’s a lot of startups in Canada. Unless you get sponsored by a US large organization or find a funder, it’s tough to remain in Canada. So I am concerned, but again, I think if we put our heads together, we might find a solution of growing those organization, keeping them in the country and have the US look at us that are like, wow, what is Canada doing? And we have an opportunity and it’s up to us to make it much better than what it is today.

Goldy Hyder:

Well, despite some of those challenges, you’re doing a terrific job here at Cisco. Why don’t we talk a little bit about a snapshot of Cisco Canada, tell our listeners about your footprint and then let’s talk as I do with the other CEOs, sort of what’s keeping you up at night?

Rola Dagher:

So I love my job. I’m actually obsessed with my job. I’m obsessed with the people, with our customers, with our channel partner and with the leadership team. I mean, you met Chuck and wait till you meet the other team, Jerry and Kelly and everybody. It’s just they’re humble people. They’re down to earth. And for me, three things that keep me going in an organization, you respect the leader. You have to be passionate about what you do, and you got to believe in the organization’s vision and strategy. And I have all three, which I’m grateful for. So Cisco Canada, as you know, was named the top country last year and it’s the first time congratulations in Canada. Congratulations. Thank you. So we’re very, very, very proud. We’ve earned it and it was a lot of work to get us where we are. So 1900 people in Canada across the country with the global service provider business.

Were almost about $2 billion operation. We’ve got 18 locations across the country and we range from sales, marketing, operation engineering. We also have a huge facility of research and development in Ottawa that are actually the engineers that create all the features and functionalities and the product. And we also have a security facility in Calgary that are the topnotch research and development to build the security platform for Cisco. As I mentioned to you before, it’s very simple for us in Canada and our slogan is one team, one goal, one Canada. And it doesn’t matter who you report to in the organization, we always work as one team. That is the one thing that made us really, really successful here in Toronto. We’ve got our innovation center, which is one of ninth globally, and they didn’t even decide to actually build it in the us. They did it in Canada, which is huge for us. And it has been recognized one of the top innovation center worldwide, and we’re very proud of what we accomplished, but we’re uncomfortable. And I will always tell you, we’ll always be uncomfortable because once you get comfortable, that’s when we stop growing. We’re always, always working towards the continuous culture improvement and continuous improvement around growth. Because since I started, we’ve been on double digit growth for almost eight quarters in

Goldy Hyder:

A row. That’s hard to do these days.

Rola Dagher:

Yes, it is. It is. And I’m concerned. So actually it’s our quarter end next week and it’s a big quarter.

Goldy Hyder:

So right now that’s keeping you up at night, but what normally keeps you up at night?

Rola Dagher:

What keeps me up at night is making sure that every day my team feels empowered and inspired to do the job. And the minute I feel that they’re not, I actually really stress about it. So I always, always toss and turn and making sure that as a leader, I’m giving them the empowerment that they need and they feel it’s the place that they want to work for and make a difference and make an impact. So that is something that I continue to think, what do I need to do today to make someone’s life better? To put a smile on someone’s space every day.

Goldy Hyder:

One of the great frontiers, the great opportunities in Canada is the north, and I know that Cisco has been doing a number of things there. Share with us what you’re doing. Yeah,

Rola Dagher:

So it’s been almost 10 years for us. The program’s called Connected North. As you know, we’re really big on giving back to the community. Our corporate social responsibility team has been doing such a great job in Canada. In fact, I tell you that Chuck Robbins, our CEO says all the time, corporate social responsibility is not just a responsibility is a must. Hence the reason why you saw the announcement where Cisco donated $50 million to homelessness in the US where you saw here in Connected North where we’ve invested millions of dollars to get the schools up and running and to communicate through our collaboration team of helping our indigenous community. The enrollment at schools has gone up, the suicide rate has gone down since we actually started connecting these schools. And it started with an idea of one school and we’re up to almost 50 schools now and 8,000 students are impacted every day with using technology as they’re transformational to learn to enjoy and adapt and to give back to the community.

So that’s our way of giving back. The other thing that I’m very, very passionate about is, as you know, when Chuck came to Toronto, we announced our mental health program because it’s very important for us to ensure technology is making difference today in everything we do. So mental health is health and we have a big crisis in Canada where one of every five Canadian will be actually impacted by mental health. And we decided to partner with Deloitte. Frank and I had the idea and I brought it to Frank and I said, I’d love for them to support us and to go to MH. And it’s all about enhancing the way mental health services are provided to citizens in Canada. And that is improving the way we deliver the services, as you know, and I’m not sure if you have been exposed to anybody in your family that has mental health issues, but it takes months to see a psychiatrist or a psychologist and most of those impacted our kids.

And it breaks your heart. I mean the suicide rate, and I brought it to Chuck’s attention after Kate Spade commits suicide, and I sent him a message and I said, Chuck, we could do this as an organization because technology could be a game changer in how those services are provided and we could save lives. We’re actually not just talking about it. We’re walking the walk. And as I mentioned, we partnered with Deloitte in KMH. We’ve actually just implemented last month at Cisco Canada in the first time ever including $25,000 in employee benefits that allows you up to 150 visits to any psychologist, counselor across all of Canada because we know how important mental health is for our employees and our organization. So we want to make sure that we are disrupting in that area, and that’s one of the things that we pride ourselves on.

Goldy Hyder:

As you know, I have three daughters and when I made the move to the business council, the first question one of them asked me was, how many of your members are women CEOs? That first of all, I was very proud of her for asking me that question. Unfortunately, my answer was not enough. True. We’re getting a start on this. And a big part of that is creating the pipeline and the role of mentorship. How is it that you ended up running Cisco and what role did mentors play in that process? Male or female?

Rola Dagher:

I love your daughters when they ask that. And I’m going to give you a story that blew my mind and I really hope you tell your daughters a story, especially coming from the Middle East that women are not really considered in my culture to be the leaders or the next CEOs. And in fact, I was going to Western Canada with my team about six months ago, and we walked into a restaurant and one of my leaders had set up a dinner for us and customers and said, the president of Cisco’s coming, so we want to make sure it’s set for customers and our president. So I walk in with one of my leaders and he’s a guy. I’m the female. I walk in and I shook the owner’s hand and I said, thank you for helping us setting this up for our customer. He said, no problem.

You’re very welcome. Then he turned to my male leader and he said, hello, Mr. President, good evening, Mr. President. So I turned to him and I said, why you didn’t think that I could be the president of the organization? So of course my leader felt really embarrassed and he said, she’s the president. And I looked at him and you know the funny thing, Mike Goldy? No, he was a Lebanese man. And I said, it’s a shame because I don’t know if you have daughters, but let’s hope that you actually are not telling your daughters as a Lebanese man that women cannot get to a high leadership position and it’s very disappointing. So he felt really embarrassed. So back to your point, we don’t have enough female leaders in the countries because we are, women are always over analyzing everything. And I have to tell you, even when I got the call for this job at the beginning, Goldy, I was hesitant to actually have the conversation.

I didn’t even want to entertain it because I was like, what? They’re looking at me as the Cisco president and I got the offer and I saw it on it for two weeks and my daughter said, mom, you could do this. But I was so nervous to sign. But if it was a male, they would’ve signed and they would’ve winged it and not overanalyzed it and said we could do it. So not enough of us are taking a chance. So in fact, I will tell women, be comfortable with being uncomfortable because you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don’t take. So take every shot that you can. And you know what? Not a lot of us as women take those shots. So I think about where I am today from either pay equality as a woman or the position that I’m in, even internally at Cisco when it comes to pay equality.

I look at people in the us, male versus female in terms of me being in Canada versus the us. I think there is a gap and there’s still a gap, and our CEO is working on actually fixing that gap between female leader, pay, equality, seniority, all of the above. So I will tell you that I am so big on it and tell your daughters that nothing will ever stop them to take every shot they can because if they won’t take it, they will must a hundred percent of that. That’s great advice, number one. Number two, when we talk about a specifically in Canada in terms of the job, I think your question was around how

Goldy Hyder:

Mentors a role of mentors.

Rola Dagher:

Yeah, it played a huge role in my life

Goldy Hyder:

And men were a part

Rola Dagher:

Of that. And actually my mentor is a men and I tried mentorship with females, but it didn’t work for some reason. We’re not doing a good job as female leaders of helping each other for some reason that there’s that competition. There’s always that women are looking, how did she get up there? I need to get up there. What happens? And we actually tend to be catty versus when you find a male leader, sometimes they don’t worry about the stuff. They don’t. We worry about it and we start being catty. We need to do better job as females of supporting each other in helping each other to get to the top. It’s not a competition. It’s a coopetition as female leaders to get there. So for me, my mentor was a man and I was completely blessed to meet that individual eight years ago. That pushed me so hard out of my comfort zone, talk about some sessions that I’ve had with him where I thought I was going to go into a fetal position and cry because he recognized my talent.

He recognized that I have what it takes, but he always pushed me to do better. And I’m so blessed, and I’ll tell you, I would never be here if it wasn’t for my mentor. Even when I wanted to take this job, I went to him and I thought I did all my homework. And when he said asked me about 150 questions and I didn’t answer all of them up to his expectation, he said, you’re not ready. Go back, interview them. Don’t get caught up with the title or the compensation package because you need to remember, if you’re not going to be passionate about it, you will not be successful. And I actually went back when I told you I sat on the offer for two weeks. I went back and I interviewed them. I interviewed my boss at the time and I said, it is my time to interview you because I want to feel that I’m going to be successful here.

I want to be supported, and what are you going to do to help me be successful? And that is so important in life for every female and for your daughters to find that mentors that are going to push them out of their comfort zone. But when you go to them, know exactly what you want. Don’t find a mentor in a sponsor just to check a box, find that individual to get you where you need to be by providing you that constructive criticism that no one else will be able to tell you and treasure it, treasure that constructive criticism because constructive criticism is a gift, treasure it and go out there and make a difference.

Goldy Hyder:

Can you maybe tell us an example or two of how he pushed back and how you received that?

Rola Dagher:

I’ll give you an example where I was so upset at the time when I was working for my previous organization, I was ready to move up to the next level, and at the time he was my boss and he was hiring for the director position to lead that team, and I was part of that team. So I applied for that role. And when I applied for that role, he knew that I was the top notch person on the team and I was so qualified. I was running the team in the interim, but he actually interviewed people on the outside and he said to me, I know how good you are, but it’s not about me knowing how good you are. I want you to go and interview with 12 people and I want people to see what I see in you. And that was one of the things that at the time, and I remember when he came to me and he said, so if you don’t get that position, are you going to get mad and leave?

What are you going to do? I said, of course I’m going to get mad because this is my job. This role is mine. I earned it. I built the team and I’m going to show you and the rest of the organization why I should be the chosen leader. He could have made it so easy and he would’ve said, sure, let’s do it. Two interviews. I literally interviewed with everybody to get the role because he wanted everyone to see what I saw. So that’s an example that I’m giving you that really hit me hard because I’m like, I can’t believe he’s making me do that. But he did it for a

Goldy Hyder:

Reason and part, it’s a sign of a very good mentor and I know

Rola Dagher:

From experience in a development. So for me, that’s really important. So I would advise every woman and men is when you choose wisely, because once you get that great mentor could be your life mentor, not just your work mentor. Make sure you have an agenda in terms of some of the things and pick your weaknesses just to help you on areas of development so he can help you on not go in there expecting that he’s going to praise you because that’s not the role of a mentor is to help you through that.

Goldy Hyder:

We could go on and on and on, but I know you’ve got a company to run, so thank you for doing this. We have a approach to wrapping up the show where we played a little bit of a word game. I just say a word and you say the first thing that comes to your mind, and so let’s get at it.

Rola Dagher:

Sure.

Goldy Hyder:

Your mom

Rola Dagher:

Love her

Goldy Hyder:

Family,

Rola Dagher:

Everything.

Goldy Hyder:

Technology,

Rola Dagher:

Lifeline

Goldy Hyder:

The Middle East,

Rola Dagher:

Drama.

Goldy Hyder:

Disruption,

Rola Dagher:

Amazing.

Goldy Hyder:

Globalization,

Rola Dagher:

Great

Goldy Hyder:

Mental health

Rola Dagher:

Is health.

Goldy Hyder:

The north,

Rola Dagher:

Very important

Goldy Hyder:

Canada

Rola Dagher:

Land of opportunity.

Goldy Hyder:

Thanks for doing this.

Rola Dagher:

Thank you so much. I had a great time. Thank you, Goldy.

Goldy Hyder:

Thanks again to Rola Dagher for being my guest on this episode of Speaking of Business. Subscribe now for more conversations with Canada’s top innovators, entrepreneurs, and business leaders. Search speaking of business, wherever you find podcasts, or visit speaking of biz.ca to join our email list and follow us on social media. Until next time, I’m Goldy Hyder.